[questorminator]

All in all, I liked Gundam Seed and Gundam Seed Destiny for both its good and bad points.

First, the bad script. I agree that Gundam Seed Destiny was written poorly. Not horrible, but poor. But I figured, if I can get pass the script, maybe I'd enjoy it more. I did.

On Kira being overly powerful, I don't want to sound like his lawyer or something, but Kira was only being Kira. He may have been upgraded by the writer into some God-like hero who constantly escapes death but that is part of the plot. Kira lived to fight another day and if I can handle major characters dying, I sure can handle characters living. If they continue with the CE, then sooner or later, Kira will also fall (like Amuro Ray and Char). A lot even said that Kira was an inferior pilot to Athrun and Shinn. Yep, I believe it too. Although he's got talent, he certainly lacks the skills. Case and point: his over-reliance to the long range efficiency and the overwhelming fire-power of the Freedom and Strike Freedom. When Shinn got close with the Impulse, Kira got owned.

Kira and Lacus. Yeah, I agree that the focus on them later in the series messed up everything. But in my opinion, it is because the attention was shifted from the Shinn (supposedly the main character of the series) into Kira and Lacus and their overly idealistic dreams for peace. What they should have done is to continue with focusing on Shinn and his inner struggle and helped his character develop further. But that didn't happen and there's nothing we can do about it.

The ending was rushed - yep, my feelings to. They should have extended the war and made it a bit more realistic.

That said, I liked Seed and Seed Destiny because I enjoyed watching them. Even if the script sometimes suck and some things didn't make sense at all.

PS.
Oh, and I made an experiment with my spare MG Freedom. I simulated the destruction of the Freedom by drilling a hole into the spot where the Impulse stabbed it. It missed the cockpit (the smale model of Kira was untouched) which finally convinced me that Kira had a chance of surviving the blow. What the series shouldn't have done was to make the Freedom blow up like a nuclear warhead on the hot Nevada desert.

[LordYamikage]

Wow, well said, questorminator.
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Gundam Seed/Gundam Seed Destiny....

[YennoX]

I reckon that the GSD Theme (Vestige) was used in the wrong place, at the wrong time, at the wrong moment, on the WRONG PERSON!! I mean #@!%, who uses such an awesome song on an antagonist? The song would've been a better choice for when Shinn defeats Freedom (ie. playing as a special one-time ending for that episode only).
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[rachelc]

SEED is better ONLY because Destiny had a bad ending. If Destiny had a better ending (i.e. Athrun/ Cagalli staying together, maybe a few more scenes added in), then Destiny would be equally as good as SEED.

I found that the plot had too many twists. There were too many various plots/ sub-plots going on. Sounds weird to say, but this show was equally as frustrating as it was enjoyable.

[asuran_justice]

Almost Everything was badly written or directed by Fukuda and Morosowa...The story looked good and progressive at the start but after kira came back to the battlefield.....what in the world happened??

Shinn and Rey suddenly became the "Villans" of the series.

Athrun was completely wasted......His skill was only apparant in the first and last couple of episodes....He totally WASTED Saviour.

Recaps and Stock footage.....Damn you fukuda and morosowa..Once freedom beam spams, it continues to beam spam endlessly...I got so bored seeing the same scenes which could have been awesome (like ageis v strike and impulse vs freedom)

What in the world happened to Asucaga??? and

iJustice was given less than an hour or half of screentime, just like the akatsuki.......that was a real dissapointer....

Finally, Mwu, Asuran and Kira should have been downright DEAD by the 40th episode..It was unbelieveable and lacked any sorts of physics....something SEED and other Gundam series are notorious for.

[cagalli_26]

[quote="Gundam Seed Destiny(Kira)"]

[Strk3Fr3dom]

i hope that theres a new sequel of GDS with some greater plot and fighting with all the main characters involved. in truth, there wasn't that much fighting involved. Maybe they should make a movie out of it to capture the audience first, then make the new sequel.

[Yuuki]

Ok there are a few things about GSD that I don't understand and I was hoping someone could maybe enlighten me.

1) Why does no one seem to know Kira? They know the Freedom but they don't seem to know who was piloting it during the first war, and no one seems to know that Kira is with Lacus. I mean they lived together for two years and she is an idol...Don't you think word should have gotten out that she was no longer with Athrun but rather with this other dude, who happens to be the Ultimate Coordinator as well as a hero of the first war?

This leads me to 2) Why whenever Meer gets involved can Athrun only say "errr, ummm.....well.......maybe" It's like he goes stupid. Can't he just say that they're not together? It's not like dating Athrun makes her Lacus. It just doesn't seem well thought out to me.

3) Why doesn't anyone point out to Shinn that he's an idiot. First he gets mad because Orb was protecting their right to reject an alliance and it resulted in a war, then when Orb decides to join an alliance to keep their country from burning like last time he gets mad that they gave in. What exactly does he want them to do? And why doesn't anyone point out that Cagalli and Athrun have been through a war and political negotiations and might know a little more about the reality of how these things work than an arrogant 15 year old kid with authority issues. Basically Shinn has the biggest ego I have ever seen and everyone around him is just fueling it. Yes Kira was also around that age when he was given the same amount of authority and power but that was also a crisis situation (Shinn was actually assigned to the Impulse) and Kira listened to Murrue and Mwu when they gave advice. He was also never as arrogant and rather than celebrating his victories would basically mourn for the lives he had taken. Kira was also a lot more conscious of the fact that he only fought to protect those he cared about - Shinn just seems to want to show off. Basically it annoys me that Kira was defeated by Shinn. I think Kira has proven himself enough in SEED and has fought enough battles to be worthy of his power and Shinn is the one who needs to be taken down a few notches.

4) What is up with Cagalli the crybaby? How can someone like that rule a country? She needs to take a few notes from Lacus. I mean when Lacus' father was killed she held it in and did what she needed to and waited until she was alone with Kira before letting her emotions take over. Cagalli just screams and cries about her ideals and feelings and everything she WANTS and never seems to think about what she needs to DO to actually make it happen.

Basically apart from Cagalli the crew of the Archangel seem to be the only ones with their heads on straight.

[vindKtiv]

1.) Are you kidding me? Everybody knew Kira. I was wondering the exact opposite. In a battle, random people who weren't even in the first series knew that Kira piloted the Freedom. And about Kira and Lacus, of course no one knows about that. Why would they? Kira and Lacus didn't exactly broadcast their relationship in a reality t.v. series while they were confined to the Archangel and Orb.

2.) If Athrun tells everybody that he wasn't with her, then the whole ruse would be blown. People actually knew about Athrun and Lacus because Lacus was a pop star and Athrun was the son of the chairman.

3.) Shinn is 18. That is your opinion and doesn't necessarily reflect everybody's opinion.

4.) She was a crybaby because the writers made her one.

[Yuuki]

Shinn can't be 18. The war started in CE 70 and in a flashback episode it said that Shinn was 12 when the war broke out. GSD takes place in CE 73, three years later, making Shinn 15.

[epiczeroxxi]

[Weltall8000]

1) I could see him not being well known, in GS, he was pretty much just "the pilot of the Strike". After stealing Freedom, if they found out who he was, it would gain him some notoriety as well as him being in TSA, but still, its not like he'd be a very well known person to the majority of the world. Generally speaking, we don't know most of our ace soldiers in our nations' military (which is probably actually a good thing), let alone an enemies'. Very high ranking positions excluded, like generals or political leaders (which hell, many of the masses still don't know but probably should).

2) I do agree with you, he could just say we aren't together, or he could just go along with it and play the part. Like you said, being in a relationship with Athrun, doesn't make Lacus Clyne, Lacus Clyne. Though, it could bring unnecessary attention to what happened or something, but, not like she'd not be under a magnifying glass anyways.

3) Put yourself in his shoes for a moment. Your family was killed because your nation took a high and mighty stand on principle (while it did have some pragmatic reason, much of it was ideological) and was then attacked for it. Orb did know that was a possibility for their decision, but ran with it anyways. Additionally, some sects in Orb were supporting EA already, which would reasonably give EA reason to feel that Orb should be an ally, in addition to their comment that they are a nation of Earth and should join the EA. From an outsider's (like us) view, Orb could reasonably be justified at that point, however someone like Shinn, still lost his family because of that decision, his pain and anger are understandable, even if the decision made sense. He still had to pay a large price for their choice.

Now, in GSD, when Orb joins EA willingly, I certainly can agree with him being angry. Now, Orb just decided to join the EA, relatively easily, betraying the very principles that Orb's standing up for, cost him his family. Perhaps if they remained neutral, he wouldn't have been as pissed at them. Also, keep in mind, Orb threw Minerva to the wolves after they had just saved the Earth from a more severe situation with Junius Seven and delivered their Chief Representative, Cagalli, to Orb. There is plenty of reason for anyone on Minerva and especially a guy like Shinn, to be pissed at Orb.

Well, perhaps because Shinn is 16 and lost his family a couple of years ago because of a nation that is apparently now hypocritical? Funny enough in your point 4), you question how a person like Cagalli can run a country, since even you yourself insinuate that she's not a competent leader, why would you hold this against Shinn?

Shinn has reason to have this ego. He's shown a few times where his judgment is correct, where some of his superiors' is not. He's outpiloted pilots who are supposed to be better than him. He's a damn good pilot and at times, actually has a better grasp of the situation than some of the other characters. Not to mention Athrun frequently antagonizes him, when he shows up Athrun on a few occasions, despite him trying to keep him down, I'm sure Shinn gets a sense of inflated ego and honestly, if any reasons a good one, he's got it.

The comment about Kira mourning those he's killed and Shinn not. Well, perhaps that actually speaks very favorably for Shinn and the reverse for Kira. Consider this, Kira kills people, afterwords cries about it. Shinn kills people and seemingly thinks nothing of it. Wouldn't that kind of point to Kira is doing something he feels is wrong, whereas Shinn is doing something he feels is right? If that's the case, what's worse? Doing something that you know to be wrong, but doing it anyways, or doing something you know is right (and arguably he is objectively justified) and feeling no regrets? In that sense, I don't see how Kira's mourning, at all puts him in a positive light, but Shinn in a negative.

Kira being more conscious of protecting those he cared about? Did you even follow when Shinn spoke on why he fought? Shinn was trying to create a world where the same tragedy would not repeat itself. Kira protecting his friends vs Shinn trying to improve the world for everyone, from the very beginning? Yeah, Shinn's goal is far more altruistic.

Where do you even get that all Shinn cared about was showing off? He gets cocky a few times, particularly in front of Athrun, yet, Athrun is constantly criticizing Shinn, arbitrarily. He even strikes him a few times, one of which, was immediately after Shinn just did something he thought would make Athrun happy. Yeah, Athrun is actually a jackass to Shinn. On the otherhand, Kira's going around destroying MS, heavily damaging ZAFT ships, and even kills some ZAFT soldiers, and Athrun, A ZAFT SOLDIER, asks Kira "why?", gets instead of an answer, another question, then leads into bashing ZAFT on groundless accusations. Why didn't Athrun belt Kira? Kira's actions were far worse, yet Shinn, who actually does an exceptional job, gets punched in the face for it. Awesome, no double standards there. >.>

So, because Kira has gotten lazy, while Shinn works his ass off to become a better pilot and down Kira, who has been antagonizing him and his faction for half the series, Shinn shouldn't be better than Kira? Yeah, ok. You go to the track everyday and run a mile so you can beat my time for a mile. I on the other hand drink beer and watch GSD every day for a year. We meet up after one year of you training and me slouching. When you beat me in our footrace, I am perfectly justified in saying "that's stupid, you shouldn't be able to beat me!"? Yeah...no, Shinn works his ass off and has every right and credential to be considered in the running for the best pilot in GSD. Kira on the other hand, was born. So...yeah, way to go Kira, you totally earned your place! (note that I don't really care about who "deserves" to be the best, only who "actually" is the best)

4) Cagalli had a terrible character regression. Don't really understand it, I can only really chalk it up to her being young and vulnerable to the influence of the more experienced politicians. As for the comment about taking notes from Lacus, I couldn't agree any more...if her goal were to be a tyrant. Instead of screaming, Lacus calmly expresses her flawed ideals and feelings and everything she WANTS. While her lackeys do her bidding and basically topple the power structure in the world to have a teen popstar become the leader of a superpower.

There were people on the Archangel that had their metaphorical heads on straight? News to me.

[epiczeroxxi]

[Weltall8000]

[VirgozeroX]

Gundam Seed Destiny is a great series. Alot of people just have too much times on their hands and like to pick out EVERY SINGLE THING that 'CAN' be wrong and say its more than wrong.


Kira being over powerful ? K honestly, every gundam series has 1 main character that obviously has to live and represent the series. For gundam wing, look @ hero. Him with his wing zero...
- So whats the problem. gundam is like that.

Kira doesn't die ?
-Well no crap. Hes the main character guys.. come on. If the main character dies its gg ?

Storyline Confusing
- O.o maybe you are just "making" it confusing for yourself.

Destiny Ended off with alot of unanswered questions.
- I agree. Which is even more of a reason to look forward to another series rather than to say destiny sucks-end it here. (ive seen that alot around this forum )

Lacus and kira being perfect.
- Hmm.. lets think about it this way. 1st off, nobody said that kira & and lacus was on the protagonist's side. Nor did anyone say they were on the antagonist's side. So yes they are perfect, but perfect at what? The good or the bad ? Nobody's knows. The decision is for you to make. Although the story SUGGESTED that ORB/Arch Angel/Eternal are on the protagonist's side, it doesnt mean that the story wont work the other way around. You can pretend that Kira and Lacus are the villains. Nobody forced you to think of them as the "heroes". Therefore, you cannot hate someone for being themselves. They are playing there own character, and how perfect or not perfect is up to you to decide.

Basically its like saying, I think gilbert is bad. Omg hes ALWAYS bad. Why is he always bad ? Okay you know what hes so bad that hes annoying me... K DESTINY SUCKS.

same scenario with kira and lacus

See the flaw in that kind of logic ?

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Anywyas, personally, I say destiny was a GREAT series. Not perfect, but better than good. I definitely enjoyed it.

The only "problem" I had with this series was how they did not show off the gundams enough. (yes we know freedom&destiny is powerful, care to give us more screentime on justice/legend/akat ?)

I mean some of the models in this series are just superb. Look at akatsuki. Its truley an ultimate weapon. Yet they barely gave it any screen time. Plus it arrived in the series somewhat late already.

This is not the only thing that bugs me. Its the ripple effects from this. Because destiny and FREEDOM(especially) were given so much screentime it leads many people to think that it is superior to the justice . Which is definitely not true. (well, of course the decision is up to you but you have yet to seen the potentials of ij/ , so your decisions would be very much biased )

Thats about the only prob I have. Or else this show is awesome.





O AND the name calling @___@

Athrun, "Kira !" Kira, "Athrun"

Athrun, "Shinn !" Shinn, "Stares" Athrun, "stares" Rey,"Athrun" Athrun "Rey !"
-.- you get the point

Moderator Edit: Edited out strong swear word. Even though you tried to censor it members still knew what you were saying. It is best to just not use such language at all. - Klaha Sama

[Weltall8000]

[vindKtiv]

Seed was a great series, Destiny was good, but Fukuda just killed (i.e. bad, not as in Lil' Mama's "yah kilt it yah heer?") it in his interviews. I found it pretty cool forming my own opinions on whether or not someone was bad, but a couple of ignorant 4umtrollz were mad because Fukuda wouldn't lead them by the hand and tell them which characters were good and which characters were bad (omgits2ambiguousdestinysuxlulz). Even though I do agree with him sometimes (yeah, the Destiny plan wasn't that nefarious), I still feel kind of cheated when he passes the law and my opinions suddenly don't matter.

And in the times that he was too ambiguous, forming my own opinions really made the series good (I mean, that is the whole series right? Do you side with Athrun or Kira in Seed? Do you side with ZAFT or Lacus's-fun-party-team in Destiny?). But if he was giving us the freedom to form an opinion, I felt that he shouldn't have *bam* interview: so-and-so was bad, so-and-so was good. If so-and-so actually were suppose to be bad, then they should've made it more obvious. Instead, you form your own opinion walking down your chosen path and Fukuda grabs your hand and leads you. Kinda leaves a bitter aftertaste.
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Mobile Suit Gundam Soul
Last Updated: 12/24/09

[Weltall8000]

I think what ruined it was that his series and vision was subverted as much as it was.

When it comes to people completely misunderstanding his series, I could empathize with him flat out explaining what's up. Kind of like Death Note, when people thought Kira (lolz ironic) was "good", and the director had to tell the public they are idiots for not understanding that what Kira was doing, was reprehensible. What I see with these kinds of ambiguities and certain reactions to them, is just how mixed up, incapable of critical thought, and morally directionless some people really are.

If the reasons why Kira and Lacus are "good" to some in GSD are merely because; they are shown with happy/upbeat music, cool shots of them posing, their rhetoric that's spouting out this is "good and this is evil" making it seem all's black and white, and the fact that they win in the end, to me, that says alot about the viewers who hold that kind of view. It's like they simply accept them as the "good guys" at face value, "well, Kira was the good guy in GS, so he must be the good guy now!" if that's what some are basing their opinions and views on in a relatively simple work of fiction, what does that say of how they analyze and subsequently handle more complex, real-life issues?

I think it is disturbing that a guy like Fukuda has to come out and spell it out for so many.

[VirgozeroX]

what age is gundam series generally targeted @ ?

Id say 13-17 ? Maybe fukuda was pushing it ? i know people that watch gundam just for the action and obviously THE gundam.

I think if there is to be a sequel, it would be the action that needs to be improved.

"freedom dodges the green beams in the same motion every time"
"justice does the same knight stance everytime *even though its cool* "
and

MURRUE BOOBS SHAKES THE SAME EVERYTIME !

[Weltall8000]

Seems like they did that (better action) with 00 and seemed to give it more social relevance.

As of the end of season 1 Gundam 00, I haven't seen much, if any, stock footage like GSD's rampant use of it. Not only that, but they frequently seem to use unique strategies or maneuvers frequently. Unlike GS/GSD's; stop, beam spam, cut down the same (suspiciously...) 2 Zakus/Murasames with a beam saber (with different background of course), dramatic pose (accompanied by theme music), chat for a second, circle around the enemy ace firing beam rifles at each other, chat again, seed mode, close up of Kira or Athrun looking determined / Shinn screaming, a shot of new footage, play catchy J Pop song begins, cut to the pilot presumably contemplating the situation or looking on, end.

Additionally, the girls in 00 are much more fun to look at!

All that being said, I do wonder if any of this was learned from GS and GSD's mistakes?

[VirgozeroX]

Powerful gundams from destiny, Unique Plot from Stargazer , Action from Gundam 00 (make it more seed style , less knives and swords, more beams )

I say that would make a really nice gundam series.

[vindKtiv]

[moon_gundam_seed]

The good: The music

The bad: Like said, the over-used same CLIPS....

Plus It looked like they seriously tried pushing the Lacus Kira pair, and when the Cag X Ath pair got too strong they toned it down? They even tried pushing the Shin Luna pair more than CagX Ath and altered the story....If they wanted to do so, why not start from the begging? Looks like they just midway though....NEVER MIND...and tried changing the story....
So the bad: Altering the story for no apparent reason (and i know that they where against the Cag Ath pair...) So instead of changing other things, like not putting the same clip , they change other important things
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[Weltall8000]

I actually liked that they are putting the rift between Athrun and Cagalli, it seems to fit their character development well. Cagalli is the type to put her nation first, before herself. Sacrificing her personal relationship and happiness by marrying her job, really does seem like something she would do. That's not to say it would be impossible to get married in her situation, but between the two, Athrun or Orb, I find that she loves Orb more (which seems especially evident when she chose to marry Yuna "for Orb", instead of holding out for Athrun.)

From Athrun's end of things, I just kind of wonder if he really is mature enough now for a real relationship and if that coupling is even realistic for the two. He seems to be confused and really thrown around by others and events often. He seems rather wishy washy, and if anything paired with a very strong personality like Cagalli, she seemingly wouldn't be gaining much out of it. Athrun seems like he might be able to fit the role of an emotionally supportive husband and would be "the man she comes home to after a long day at work" if anything, but not really add much to her professional life, or really challenge her as an equal in many capacities. I know Athrun, when he actually has motivation, can be a strong individual, but it seems very unsustainable for him and therefore I question the prospects of the two having a prolonged, meaningful, and romantic relationship.

[VirgozeroX]

in another words. athrun's character is a complex character and is definitely believeable in REAL life. Unlike the 99% of characters in anime's