[Seed Force]

As you all may know that there is a highly controversial article which states that the official power rankings of the characters are Kira>Shin>Athrun with Kira at the head followed by Shin and then Athrun. Although it has been argued weather this is actually valid or not valid, that won’t be the purpose of this thread. I would like to bring about an argument where we directly take evidence from the series itself to support our claims and arguments on who we think is the strongest based on the episodes alone without any support from any other outside sources such as that small except which stated the controversial power rankings.

In my opinion regarding the strongest pilots with their mobile suits factored in I would have to go with Kira>Athrun>Shin>Rey>Cagalli>Lunamaria. Just to let you all know that I am going to argue in a hypothetical space where a lot of factors are added in to make the playing table as fair as possible. This means that all no kill policies or whatever are gone, all the characters are going to be like shin which means that they are going to be compared going all out on each other without holding anything back. Also since this is going to be pretty indepth I decided to neglect some of the minor characters, deciding to focus on the main 6 contenders in the series when it comes to fighting.

Strongest Fighter – Kira Yamato (The Ultimate Coordinator)
Mobile Suits: Freedom Gundam, Strike Rogue Gundam, Strike Freedom Gundam

I put Kira Yamato as the strongest in the series from all of his battles throughout the entire course of the CE Universe. A mechanical student who was suddenly thrust into the battlefield with the ability of an elite mobile suit pilot Kira has continued to increase in his capabilities of fighting one episode after the next episode. Although he had his fall in episode 34, the only person who could be blamed for that would be Kira himself.

With the Freedom Gundam, a mobile suit that dates two years older than any other unit on the battlefield Kira was unchallenged as he breezed through each battle unscratched until he finally met his demise at the hands of the calculating Shin (executer) and Rey (planner) duo. With his mobile suit Kira would sometimes be considered as “godly” or “overpowered” by forum members or a monster in the series.

When the Freedom was totaled and Kira was forced to go to space in order to save Lacus, he piloted the Strike Rogue Gundam and continued to demonstrate his capabilities. With an inferior mobile suit Kira conveyed the fact that the Freedom Gundam and its so called aimbot was not what made him so good. With the Strike Rogue, Kira landed a flurry of relentless blows against Elite Red ZAFT forces piloting both ZAKU Warriors and GOUF Ignited. This battle was short lived as the Strike Rogue was unable to hold off a plasma beam attack from a Gunner ZAKU. Had it not been for that attack, Kira probably could have devastated the entire ZAFT force on his own as he was already on his way to doing it when he arrived at the battle to assist the Desert Tiger.

With the Strike Freedom Kira once against demonstrated his capabilities of a mobile suit pilot, this time clearly earning the title of “overpowered.” Although he has only had two battles with the Strike Freedom, Kira has demonstrated that he is already a step above Shin even based on his no kill policy. In episode 42, the battle could have been called a stalemate for many reasons however Kira was also getting the upper hand in the battle as he was constantly pushing Shin back while neglecting the chance to kill Shin. Not to mention that the Strike Freedom wasn’t even functioning at its full capacity. The 8 DRAGOONS that were equipped on the Strike Freedom weren’t deployed in this battle.

Overall, I would consider Kira as the number one fighter in the CE Universe which could also be backed up by Chairman Gilbert Durandall who talked about Kira having the potential to defeat both Athrun and Shin. (I believe this comment was stated in the hanger when Gilbert was reminiscing about his past in genetics) A fighter who excels in almost all ranges of combat from generally shooting down oppositions, slicing up foes at close range with lightning speeds and sniping targets from afar Kira can be considered as the most balanced fighter in the series. Kira’s biggest flaw in the entire series which is worse than Athrun is his no kill policy which can be used against him. Shin expertly exploited this weakness by just moving his joints a few feet in order to dodge the attacks as Kira never aims for the cockpit or any part that is vital. However with the Strike Freedom, Shin has issues when going up against the SF due to the SF getting off two shots instead of one shot for every shot that Shin can shoot back. Not to mention that sine it was only recently discovered that the Destiny Gundam runs on a limited power source, the Strike Freedom can last much longer than the Destiny Gundam.

In a hypothetical situation where the no kill policy was removed, I believe that Kira can be the strongest uncontested fighter in the series. After going over his fights with all the characters it can be seen that there have been many times when his opposition was at his mercy but Kira had never decided to kill them. Even when Shin with the powerful Destiny Gundam went up against Kira, Shin left himself open to attack and was spared when Kira opted to use his rail guns instead of his plasma beam cannon. The few times when we have seen Kira discard his no kill policy he had become a raging beast, destroying his enemies again and again even under combined strategic attempts. For example, during the desert arc when the clever commander Andy Watfield and his minions assaulted the Strike Gundam when Kira went berserk and destroyed the entire force without much of a thought. Then there is also the situation when Raww forces Kira to discard his no kill policy when Fllay was killed. During this time Kira was a lot like Shin (minus the charging and stabbing), going straight towards his target and eliminating everything in his path, even shocking his opponent who had thought that he had had an advantage over Kira. (Remember Raww was scared and not expecting Kira to suddenly come charging at him with a dual sided beam saber)


2nd Strongest Fighter – Athrun Zala (The CE Warrior)
Mobile Suits: ZAKU Warrior, Saviour Gundam, GOUF Ignited, Infinite Justice

I set Athrun in second, a tier above where Shin should been in the controversial power rankings thread. My reason for this is that Athrun is a much more well rounded fighter than Shin who can deal with opponents from many different directions instead of just going in close for the kill. As you may know Shin always dodged the long range attacks and moves in close for the attack, while Athrun has attacked before from mid to long range before with his mobile suits. Although his performance in Destiny hasn’t been up to par, he has a lot of other factors added in which could contribute to all of this. Like Cagalli he was never sure where to go on the battlefield, he was entrusted to help end the war but the methods that were being used confused him. He was getting more and more disillusioned as the episodes went by, while still trying to discover the truth he was finally shot down in episode 37. However, when Athrun has a set goal in mind he is a very strong warrior who is strong from both mid ranged shooting and down right deadly at melee combat.

In the beginning of Destiny when Athrun piloted the ZAKU Warrior he demonstrated to us how good of a pilot he was. Even shocking the mildly experienced Shin at the time with his ability to take down the prototype ZAFT mobile suits that had been commandeered by the Logos Extended CPUs. In this battle, he ran circles around his opposition despite being in a far inferior mobile suit created in the same generation as the ZAFT prototype mobile suits. This ability to even hold off contenders with a weaker mobile suit demonstrates how far his capabilities of being a mobile suit pilot extends out to.

As the pilot of the Saviour Gundam, Athrun entered into his depression stage, becoming just a background who generally dueled with Sting or flew around in circles doing nothing but watching and screaming at people. Sadly he was devastated by Kira in a head on sword match where Athrun was not prepared for Kira’s willingness to stop him in the heat of battle.

With the GOUF Ignited while trying to escape the ZAFT base towards his friends, Athrun once again demonstrates how he was still distracted as a fighter. Although he managed to score a few hits in against the Destin by destroying its beam rifle, he was outright defeated in a two on one match between cannon fodder and ZAFT strongest mobile suits.

Although the Infinite Justice has not premiered in actual battle yet until this coming Saturday, it is speculated that Athrun will finally return to his glory and will have the capability to give Shin or Rey the fight of their lives when he comes charging in at close ranged combat.

Overall Athrun is a close ranged fighter who actually prefers to fight into of just running as charging like Shin. At close range, he could be considered as unmatched especially with his new Infinite Justice Gundam which boasts a wide set of beam based weaponry designed for slicing apart his opponents. By removing his no kill policy, should equal Shin when it comes to causing havoc, slicing apart opponents one after another. In this scenario Athrun also should generally stand out onto of Shin in combat as Athrun generally is hesitant to kill his opponents from the beginning of the Seed Universe.


3rd Strongest Fighter – Shin Asuka (The Raging Berserker)
Mobile Suits: Impulse Gundam, Destiny Gundam

I’m sure that a lot of you are probably yelling as to why Shin was stuck in 3rd as opposed to second or first. But before you start complaining hear my reasoning on why I put Shin in third as opposed to second or first. Shin is what I would consider more as an effective fighter who can probably take out Kira or Athrun by using his unorthodox and repetitive but effective moves, but overall he isn’t that good of a fighter in all essence. Out of the Kira Athrun and Shin circle he is the more unpredictable and crazy who is prone to surges of anger in order to help speed up his fighting capabilities.

Throughout the span of Destiny, I find that Shin has had the most growth out of any of the characters in terms of fighting capabilities. With the Impulse Gundam he demonstrated that he was more than a match for all three of the druggies and managed to fight off other hard pilots. In his first encounter with the Freedom Gundam he was obviously outclassed as he didn’t even know what was coming at him before he had lost his arm with his beam rifle (episode 23) Then came episode 28 where Shin demonstrated that he was going to be more than just a push over when he activated his seed mode and tried to engage with the Freedom and managed to dodge an attack from the Freedom Gundam which could have surely left the Impulse Gundam crippled again. Finally in episode 34 after some instruction from Rey and a lot of in depth analysis on the capabilities of the Freedom Gundam shin finally took down the Freedom Gundam. In a fight of mind over matter where he utilized his brain more than he did using brawn. In a battle where all the cards are placed against the Freedom Gundam, sticking Kira against the wall Shin pressed a relentless assault against the Freedom Gundam again and again using unorthodox maneuvers that Kira had never seen before while utilizing Kira’s greatest weakness of never killing in order to finally destroy the Freedom Gundam while supposedly killing Kira. I also believe that it was during this battle that Shin developed his new stabbing attack that he constantly uses with the Destiny Gundam and the sing anti ship beam sword. With the Impulse Gundam Shin brought out the full potential of the mobile suit, besting a mobile suit which was much superior than his, demonstrating that he is capable of being on top.

With the Destiny Gundam Shin proves that once again he is more than just a push over but actually an equal foe to Kira when he fights Kira in the Destiny Gundam with a few disadvantages in the fight. Although it seems that they are clearly paced, Kira appears to be a few steps above Shin even when Kira isn’t even fighting at his full potential while Shin is going all out against Kira with the desire to kill. With the Destiny, Shin demonstrated his fighting capabilities at close range, utilizing the full set of Destiny’s armaments to disable the Logos forces at heaven’s base to turn the tide of a losing battle over to a ZAFT victory along with the capture of half the Logos force minus the leader Jibril. Although it was an unfair fight, Shin also defeated Athrun Zala in the GOUF Ignited in a two on one fight where the Destiny and the Legend Gundam both ganged up on a cannon fodder grunt like unit.

Overall I could classify Shin as a close ranged fighter who is best at what he does. Charging at his foes and using a relentless assault in order to take advantage of his foe, never giving them a quarter to mount any form of a counter attack. His direct charge at high speeds with his beam sword stuck out appears to be his trademark which is currently uncontested unless there is further information stated that it can somehow be deflected by a weapon. However the problem with Shin is his rage, as said by Rey himself. Shin’s rage is uncontrollable and may turn how to be more of a disadvantage to Shin than a benefit. Shin also does not seem to be capable of much combat outside of the slice and dice based fighting. His aim with the beam rifle is average at best, he barely scores hits on characters while hitting all cannon fodders at 100% accuracy. Shin also does not have any close ranged fighting capabilities besides stabbing, if he were to get into a fight where swords were necessary such as Kira vs Athrun in episode 28, Shin would probably be at a loss as he does not seem to be able to engage in a sword fight. (Running and clashing doesn’t really count, I’m talking about a real duel) As effective as he is I wouldn’t put him as the best or second best when all the factors are added in and all the characters are going all out. Then there also comes the matter that Shin seems to be easily swayed, in a battle where someone with a convincing argument comes in (say Rey or Athrun) Shin can easily be thrown into a state of confusion like episode 37. Not to mention that he also has uncontrollable bursts of anger which are starting to diminish as he gets nightmares of his battles against the victims of people that he has eliminated in the past.


4th Strongest Fighter – Rey Za Burrel (The Newtype Combatant)
Mobile Suits: ZAKU Phantom, Legend Gundam

Rey Za Burrel, the supposed successor the Raww le Klueze who has apparently inherited his calculating nature to a certain extend appears to be more of a commander than a mobile suit pilot. Although his piloting skills are decent, he seems to rely more on his mobile suit than actually using talent to his dispoal. In my eyes Rey still stands as a better strategist and commander standing at a flagship than actually on the battle leading the forces head on. He was the one who suggested the tactics for Shin to use in order to take out the Freedom Gundam. When Shin was reviewing the tapes of the Freedom Gundam, all Shin did was comment on how well the Freedom Gundam fought. Rey was the one who told him how to take down the Freedom Gundam. It appears that Rey is the planner and the bearer of the cards while Shin is the one who does all the dirty work.

At the beginning of the series when Rey piloted the ZAKU Phantom, perfering to go with the Blaze pack of missiles he could have been considered as mediocre pilot as he struggled in his battles against the Exass. However at that time he proved that he was better than Shin when it came to dealing with enemies that strike from multiple targets, such as the wire guided gun barells that Shin apparently had a hard time dealing with while Rey easily shot two of them apart. However, his abilities when fighting the gundams were not as good as expected. He was kicked around by Auel in episode 2 and never did much against them, he was more of a background fighter who never demonstrated his capabilities to be much of a fighter.

With the Legend Gundam Rey proved himself to be a better fighter charging through two detachable arms of the Destroy Gundams and finally taking down a Destroy Gundam with the aid of Lunamaria Hawk. Although he has not deployed his DRAGOONS yet, I’m going to speculate that they should be on par with the DRAGOONS that Raww sent out at the end of Seed. Meaning he should be able to utilize them to their potential, although I’m not sure what their effects will be now that the mobile suits have gotten even more agile. It should be possible that Rey will have an easier time dealing with the standard cannon fodder but his battles against the Strike Freedom and Infinite Justice do not seem to be really well designed for the Legend Gundam.

Rey on his own appears to be a mid ranged fighter who is best when shooting off his beam rifles. Now with the Legend at his command, he may probably use the DRAGOONS to distract the elite pilots, but it is doubtful that he may actually get to kill any of them with the use of his DRAGOONS. Although his melee fighting capabilities have apparently improved with the dual sided blade that he can now utilize, I’m not too sure how he will fare against the better pilots at close range based combat. Which is why I’m sticking him at 4th right under Shin Asuka in terms of who is the strongest.


5th Strongest Fighter – Cagalli Yula Attha (The Angry Princess)
Mobile Suits: Strike Rogue Gundam, Akatsuki Gundam

I set Cagalli Yula Attha above Lunamaria Hawke for many reasons. Despite the fact that Cagalli did not show that she has had any capabilities of fighting across the entire span of Destiny when she just sat in the Strike Rogue shouting her head off at people. Come episode 40 she demonstrated that her capabilities of a mobile suit pilot are actually amazing. The factor that seems to have restricted her fighting capabilities across the span of destiny is that she never had the desire to fight or last out against her own people. Her goals were to just get them back to Orb in one piece to avoid all the fighting that the Unatos had thrown Orb in when Orb had united itself with the Earth Alliance.

When all the problems that Cagalli had once had in the past had diminished and she stepped into the Akatsuku Gundam its plainly obvious that she is a more than capable fighter who is able to hold her own against the above average combat pilot. With the Akatsuki, we saw her taking down mobile suits left and right. Although her mobile suit with its reflective armor coming into play, she was still a more than able pilot who was willing to kill. Wrecking havoc across the battlefield with her weapons, while stealing moves from both her twin brother and her supposed lover Athrun. Although she had lost to Shin in a battle, it was obvious that the battle was not designed for her. Shin is definitely a better pilot than Cagalli who could have bested her in almost all scenarios’ however it can still go without saying that Cagalli is still a very competent fighter who can take down enemy mobile suits once she is motivated to step into the battle field and start pulling the trigger. In episode 40 and 42, Cagalli had eliminated multiple ZAFT units who were over powering the standard Orb Murasame and Astray unit. Although it is not known if she still uses the AI from Seed to assist her in fighting, I believe that after a long and drawn out fight Cagalli would probably come out on top of Lunamaria.


6th Strongest Fighter – Lunamaria Hawke (The Sniper Turned Fighter)
Mobile Suits: ZAKU Warrior, Impulse Gundam

The reason why I put Lunamaria Hawke as the weakest in my roster is that she hasn’t demonstrated that much of a competent capability to fight. As opposed to the other members who were listed within this roster. With the Gunner ZAKU Warrior she was restricted to long range artillery, shooting down cannon fodder but never getting a hit on anything that had a Gundam label on it. When she went to mid range combat against the Gaia Gundam in episode 6 she finally managed to deal a good dose of damage, however I don’t see any reason as to why she could suddenly become stronger than Cagalli.

With the Impulse Gundam in episode 38 she demonstrated that she is worthy of a red coat like her two other co pilots Shin and Rey, but if you recall correctly she was constantly told what to do during the battle in episode 38. Rey even told her to sit out the battle as she was more of a hindrance to the other two pilots when thrown into battle. In episode 38, Luna left herself open leaving shin to defend her. Shin also had to tell her to equip the sword packs to engage with the Destroy Gundams. Although she managed to make a few hard strikes to the Destroy Gundams, they were always the last strikes that came after another mobile suit had left a blow. Overall if you throw her against Cagalli, Cagalli would probably come out on top with her Akatsuki which can deflect over half of all the Impulse’s armaments. I’m under the assumption that Luna’s close combat abilities are not as good as she is with sniping which seems to be a big flaw when up against a Gundam that is designed to reflect beams.


Probably by now you are all wondering why I had added in a lot of factors which might have changed the way you perceived the rankings of the characters in strength. The only reason why I added other factors in is that I was trying to make the comparison as fair as possible. Think of it as comparing two fighters, except one of them has his arms tied behind his back while his opponent has a knife in his hand. It brings out a more balanced term of strength, but the purpose was to see who is the best in terms of raw power.
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Join Gundam Triple Triad!!

[dom33]

i not bashing you but do you know you act like your right because your a mod?

and my power chart(pilot)
1st:shinn
2nd:rey or kira.
3rd:athrun
4th:lunamaria
5th:andy
6th:dom pilots
7th:cagalli(i mean how many times has she been saved?)
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[coba]

[Zero Wing]

[luna_rainbow]

I'm not really good when it comes to mobile suits and piloting so I'll stay mostly out of this but...

[coba]

[Zero System]

yup i too agree with lunar rainbow, during SEED, Raww was considered one of the best MS pilot. During that time, a not-so-full fledge NT(kira) really had a difficult time against Raww, a NT which had a MS that has the deadliest Weapon, the DRAGOON system. And he had to face the timelimit of jakin yue self destruct link to the fire-ing of GENISIS.
So interms of berserker mode, it would be:
Kira> shin ?? athrun
piloting skills would be:
Kira> shin??athrun
Kira is no doubt the best.....which pilot can do such a crazy stunt, throws up guns, open beam shields catch AS sword, shoots rail cannon then catch guns back.
Some shinn supporters ( fan boy is such an ugly word) might say that shin defeated kira, i can onli say that kira has his hand full with the defence of the archangel and shinn hackin', slashin & shooting

For shin & athrun: waits for EP43

[coba]

[Destinyblade]

My power ranking:

1. Kira Yamato
2. Shinn Asuka
3. Athrun Zala
4. Rey Za Burrel
5. Cagalli Yula Attha
6. Lunamaria Hawke

Here's my analysis on these six pilots and why I chose the ranking to be this way:

Kira Yamato
My Ranking: #1
Strike Freedom Gundam, Clyne Faction

Anyone who has seen Kira fight cannot deny that he is one of, if not the, best mobile suit pilot in Gundam SEED Destiny. Many will argue that Kira has one of the most destructive mobile suits in all of Gundam, but I will argue that the Freedom and Strike Freedom Gundams only enable him the ability to shoot down multiple targets faster than the Strike or Strike Rouge would allow him. Kira has shown to be capable of solving problems he encounters on the battlefield, as well as getting better and better at piloting the more he launches in a mobile suit. His abilities as a tactician are very good, as he was able to modify the OS in the Desert Arc of Gundam SEED in order for the Strike Gundam to work properly in the desert to fight the BuCUEs. In the ocean arc of SEED, he chose the weapons he was going to use in underwater combat and successfully took down the GOOhNs. He chose the weapons and packs he would use and gave Murdoch a good explanation as to why he chose those instead of others. He even manage to defeat the four stolen G Weapons (with only the Strike) as if they were nothing. Kira also was able to stop Shinn's predictable anti-ship sword attack by cleverly using the beam shields and hands in SEED Destiny at Orb. Kira has proven to use his mind in combat and his skills increasingly get better. Combine that with the fact that he hardly has any doubt in what he is fighting for (which is why I believe Kira can activate his SEED Mode at will, unlike Athrun), and you have the strongest and best pilot.


Shinn Asuka
My Ranking: #2
Destiny Gundam, ZAFT

Shinn is like the Anti-Kira. He has an attitude that can be annoying at times, he wants to fight as a mobile suit pilot when Kira does not want to fight at all, and he gets angry and even a little bloodthirsty at times. While there may not be much to like in the guy, you have to admit that his skills rival those of Kira and Athrun. He is what I would call the aggressive-type pilot, something that the druggies were back in SEED. In other words, Shinn is always on the attack, leaving his enemies barely enough time to defend themselves. Kira and Athrun have never been very successful in taking down aggressive pilots, as they always ended in a draw when fighting the druggies. Even though Shinn gets angry a lot, he can use his brain, though it's not shown often. At first, he could only use a strategy if Rey or Athrun came up with it, but he told Luna and Rey to use the anti-ship swords of the Sword Impulse to take down the Destroy Gundams. Like Kira, Shinn hardly has any doubts on who he is fighting, and when he does, he goes on the attack and activates his SEED Mode as well, perhaps as often as Kira does. Even with all these factors, Shinn is still in a very close second to Kira.


Athrun Zala
My Ranking: #3
Infinite Justice Gundam, Clyne Faction/Orb

Athrun definitely has the brains, as he had commander-like roles in both SEED and SEED Destiny. He led the other red ZAFT elites when they were on Earth (called the Zala Squad), and he was able to come up with strategies when he rejoined ZAFT and was appointed to FAITH. His skills obviously rivals Kira and Shinn, perhaps even better than Shinn as he was able to take down Kira back in SEED and that was against an enraged Kira, not a calm Kira with his no-kill mind set. So why do I rank him #3? One major reason: his confusion. Athrun has never found the answer to one question that has bugged him ever since he received the Justice: What am I and should I fight for? This is the one thing that holds him back from activating his SEED Mode and fighting his all. Right now, Athrun can probably only touch the level of Kira and Shinn. If he has his mind set, has his question answered finally, or even become the avengeful Athrun he was back in PHASE-30 of SEED, I can see his skills exceeding those of Shinn's.


Rey Za Burrel
My Ranking: #4
Legend Gundam, ZAFT

The successor to Rau Le Creuset is one big mystery, like Dullindal is, as is his piloting skills. He certainly is a Newtype, which instantly makes him better than your typical pilot. However, I believe he is not fighting his best. Rey has been mostly in the back seat, giving the orders. He is good enough to avoid being damaged occasionally by grunt units which instantly ranks him better than Cagalli and Luna. The Legend Gundam is the same type of unit the Providence was, but he let Shinn do most of the fighting when they took him the "traitor," Athrun. What makes him dangerous, though, is his cunning. He was able to come up with a plan to take down the Freedom Gundam which ended up being successful. We obviously have not seen this guy's true face yet, and I believe that no one has seen him fight seriously for once. Once his true intentions are revealed, I believe he will become extremely dangerous and possibly reach the level of Rau Le Creuset in piloting. For now, though, he is ranked #4.


Cagalli Yula Attha
My Ranking: #5
Akatsuki, Orb

I kinda had a hard decision on whether Cagalli or Luna would be #5, or if the two should be tied. However, it is clear to me that Cagalli belongs in this spot. There are two reasons for why I believe she is better than Luna. First of all, she is now a representative of Orb and trying to follow in her father's footsteps. Cagalli has much more to lose than the others if she dies. Secondly, her combat range seems to not be limited (she can fight close, mid or long range), which is easily shown in the Akatsuki debut. Hopefully these two factors will push her to stay alive and fight well in combat, but even with this she is not as good as the four ranked above her.


Lunamaria Hawke
My Ranking: #6
Impulse Gundam, ZAFT

Both Cagalli and Luna occasionally get shot down at times by grunt units, so they're obviously not as good as the Big Four. So why is Luna #6? The reason is mainly due to Luna's speciality in only mid to long range combat which she showed back when she was piloting her customized ZAKU Warrior. She did use the Sword Silhouette pack of the Impulse Gundam at Heaven's Base, but that's not enough to prove anything. She even nearly got shot down by a grunt unit at Heaven's Base, but Shinn saved her with Destiny's beam shield. Her piloting somewhat reminds me of Cagalli back in SEED: good enough to be better than normal pilots, but not good enough to look invincible in a battle. I believe she will continue to get better and more used to the Impulse as she fights more and she might even get some more tips from Shinn now that the two a little closer to each other.
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Member of Anime Honors Society

[dom33]

okay here's my proof.

1st:shinn(gentic type:coordinater/?newtype?)(see episode 32)
i say shinn cause he beat kira useing somthing called strategy.something i haven't seen in gundam for a long time.and he (not to bash but) isn't some god/ jesus juice drinking pilot.and it's ben stated he's the main charecter
2nd:rey or kira(gentic type:(rey)newtype,(kira):coordinater/?newtype?)
i say this cause both are the possible final boss,i say this cause both have dragoons like rau did.and kira is jesus juice drinking. and it seems that rey is the final boss.
3rd:athrun(gentic type:coordinater)
i say this cause atrun was 2nd to kira who is now 2nd so he is 3rd now.ah nough said.
4th:lunamaria(genetic type:coordinater)
she's fith cause she was pretty good at heaven's base and has a hand me down gundam.
5th:anddrew waltfeld(genatic type:coordinater)
bah he's an ace bah nut much to say.
6th:dom pilots
grunt killers nough said.
7th:cagalli
damselin distress nough said.

This isn't very objective; try again.
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[DRAGOON]

I'm sorry, since when does stating the evidence and elaborating on it includes bashing on a character and stating he "drinks jesus juice"? What the hell kind of comment is that?

Since we are following the example set by Seed Force to analyze the set of characters he has given us, I will give my ranking then explain it.

These rankings and reasonings are based on each characters experience as a pilot in their previous and current ms.

Kira Yamato>Athrun Zala=Shinn Asuka>Rey Za Burrel>Cagalli Yula Athha>Lunmaria Hawke

Kira:
In my mind it is Kira who holds top spot. Why is it you ask?
First of all Kira is the only successful result of the Ultimate Coordinator Project by Dr. Hibiki, whereas Canard Pars (Kira's possible older brother *speculation*) is a failed attempt.

Second of all Kira in the beginning of Gundam SEED had no prior training before attempting to pilot the Strike Gundam. Yet he does it with ease. Throughout every Gundam series a newtype was first discovered or later discovered by a key point. That point is a person's ability to quickly pilot a mobile suit without any real training. And they also adapt to the situation quite well.

Kira was immediately dragged into battle to protect his friends from dying in GS. His duty to protect his loved ones was the only motivation and reason for him to pilot in the first place. These battles he has with the Klueze squad is what I feel honed his skills as the strongest character alive.

We can see throught the GS/GSD series there are small implications of Kira's newtype powers. It finally was confirmed (unofficially) when in episode 39 of GSD when Kira displayed the distinct newtype flash and shouted a verbal command to his DRAGOON funnel bits.

While some of you have made the assumption that Kira's abilities are dependant entirely on his MS (Freedom), we later see that even in an outdated suit such as the Strike Rouge, we see him very quickly dispose of the grunt zaku units with no effort at all. Now that he is given the Strike Freedom, its unlikely for me to think of anyone else as the strongest character.

Athrun:
Athrun certainly could hold his own with Kira back in the SEED days. But I'd still have to say Athrun's skill is a smidgen below Kira. It is only because we see Kira face off against multiple enemies, while Athrun and his team only had orders to kill or capture Kira.

We may never know if Athrun will ever be as strong as Kira because Kira and Athrun are best friends, and certainly Athrun's emotional factor has been a hindrance to his piloting abilities as of late in GSD. I would hope by now since hearing words from Lacus in episode 42 of GSD that Athrun would get back to his right state of mind and start being a good pilot once again.

Shinn:
Ahh the new kid on the block. Shinn decided to join ZAFT after being the only surviving member of his family. His ideals at that time was he wanted to have power to protect (which I don't personally understand, because his personal views are hypocritical at times). Shinn was a cadet along with Rey Za Burrel and Lunamaria Hawke and they later became elite "Reds" and was ordered to be stationed on the Minerva under the command of Talia Gladys.

Anyways this is the reason why I rank Shinn in the same standings as Athrun. In my opinion Shinn does not really have a good fighting style. He makes do with what he has, namely he burns off all his angsty energy burning a hole in him and shapes that into a kind of like rushing football tackle attack. Basically Shinn's a berserker. The majority of his fights whether it be Impulse or Destiny was mostly done in a melee style.

I rank Shinn's piloting abilities below that of Athrun, but with the Destiny his stabbing/slashing/swiping use of the Anti-Ship sword can catch people by surprise if they are not a truely skilled pilot.

Rey:
Rey... ahh the wannabe Raww pilot. In my opinion, Rey is nowhere as cool or talented as Raww was. It's been speculated Rey is maybe the possible clone of Raww. Rey's true powers lies in his manipulative nature and colloboration with Gilbert Dullindal. I find it weird that in the recent episodes of GSD that Rey wasn't depicted in a chibi-like manner (Refer to the episode where Rey is head over heels about Dullindal and has big bright eyes that sparkle.) This is my speculation, but I believe that Rey could also be an advance form of extended, or if he's not an extended, Dullindal is certainly using the same machine to erase Rey's memory or modify his behavior.

Rey's abilities as a pilot isn't anything special, but we do know he certainly has some innate newtype abilities as we see him with a newtype flash when he encounters Neo Lorrnoke (Mwu La Fllaga?). In my opinion I believe Dullindal kept Rey around for his innate newtype abilities. I believe that the Legend was never intended for Athrun and that Athrun and Shinn's meeting with Dullindal that day was basically a trap laid out for Athrun.

Rey's abilities from what I've seen in GSD doesn't show me anything special, but I have a feeling that DRAGOON style fighting (ala Providence) is much more suited for him.

Cagalli:
Needless to say we saw some action from Cagalli in SEED, however since GSD started she started to be useless and let her emotions affect her just like Athrun. Thank god since she heard the words from Uzumi she has finally gotten her act straight and manage to display some superior piloting skills. I made Cagalli a higher rank than Luna because of her skills as a pilot and as a commanding unit within the Akatsuki.

Lunamaria:
Not much can be said about her. In her previous MS her skills were like that of a sniper. She was basically defending Minerva and shooting long range beams to ward off enemy mobile suits. While we did see Lunamaria command some units in the fight against Heaven's Base, she did not do it all on her own.

[bopomofodotonolo]

Kira's definitely the strongest, even though some of you say his SEED is not as good as Shinn's SEED, which I disagree with cuz Kira can control his, Kira also has his newtype ability. So Kira is the first SEED mode and newtype person EVER. Everyone else just got one or the other, and to add to that, Kira is also the Ultimate Coordinator, his intelligence, reflexes, strength have all been significantly enhanced which in turn contributes to his ultimate piloting skills cause you need fast reflexes to dodge and stuff and Intelligence to do stuff like throw your beam rifles up in the air, catch a sword, own a gundam then catch it again. Even IF Shin is better than Kira at piloting, Shinn is too stupid to think when in battle or come up with strategies. The studying Freedom thing doesn't count cause he didn't do jack, it was all Rey that was doing the planning, hes just rewatching the videos of Freedom so it seems like hes thinking when in Athrun's presence. If it weren't for Rey telling him that Freedom doesn't attack the cockpit, Shinn would've lost. Thats how stupid Shinn is, hes fought with Freedom before and seen him fight lots of times but he doesn't even realize that Freedom doesn't attack the cockpit. Rey hasn't even encountered Freedom yet and he sees this. Shinn is also too unstable to become the best pilot, Rey says a few words to Shinn and his heads already overloaded, he can't comprehend Rey's big words so he just goes psycho and stabs Athrun. Hes a mindless fighter, if he doesn't understand or if those dont agree with him, he will destroy, thats all there is to Shinn.

Athrun is second because according to spoilers, he owns Shinn in his Destiny which is supposedly the strongest MS in existence (even though its not) and that is an injured Athrun too.

[Red21Suns]

[Zero Wing]

I was skeptical about this thread at first, but you guys seem to be taking fairly professionally, for the most part. Lets try to keep it that way. And Dom33, your arguments are just pure bias, and don't even attempt to outline reasons why you have your particular order.
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[Souleater]

I'm just listing the first 3, since I have no time nor energy to list more.

Of course, all this is IMHO. LONG POST AHEAD!

1: Kira Yamato

Overview: The undisputed ace of CE, I'd be lying if I didn't say Kira wasn't No.1. He has alot of strengths going for him; a mechanical student, strong beliefs, and not forgetting he's the Ultimate Coordinator, which means he has the POTENTIAL to be the best there is.

But that's also where he falls flat. Given his current state, disabling enemies and just rushing out of the battlefield, he's not aiming for anything else other than getting the job done in a few minutes, which is rather forgivable really, since he hasn't really been meeting his only match much (Shinn in Impulse).

Still, Kira's one of the best talents in Destiny outside Astray; he's got arguably the best with ranged attacks and if he wants to, can go melee if circumstances demand it.

Development: With the Strike, it was already obvious he was a natural at MS piloting (even if all he did was seemingly pressing the 'If a Ginn attacks you with a sword, push here!' button... but that's another story). This further showed in him quickly changing his OS in the desert Arc of Seed, and he personally performed some very creative/stylish moves there as well, such as kicking up sand to mess up incoming missiles, or using his shield to take out a BuCUE.

Unfortunately, all signs of creativity seemingly ended when he got Freedom. Though one can argue that he hasn't had much of a match in it, he also was struggling through the druggies w/ Athrun, yet none of them managed to gain any sort of decisive upper hand over each other.

And now, in Destiny, we just haven't seen enough new moves from Kira in Freedom, it just seems like he hasn't improved at all, or expects his enemy to go down like flies after doing it personally for the umpteenth time. This was also the lead cause of his demise in his Phase 34 and briefly, 28.

It's just like a soccer player, Kira has been improving so much and has actually outright stopped doing so due to the lack of an enemy that could provide more than a match for him. Though hopefully, this will change as we see more of S-Freedom against Destiny.


Style: It's a no-brainer that even though he's skilled at both, Kira obviously prefers the ranged battle, and it's expected, as both versions of Freedom are specialised for such long-ranged operations. Still, with Kira as their wielder, two simple beam sabers can be basic, yet deadly weapons.

2: Shinn Asuka

Overview: Newly introduced in Destiny, Shinn does seem to be Zaft's top ace right now, with tons of battleships sunk and MS downed. He does, however, have a berserker rage in him, where in other people rage would have caused them to lose focus and sense of well, sense, in Shinn's case it actually gives him MORE focus and determination, a good trait.

Also, Shinn to a larger extent than Kira has a knack for adapting to the situation, even sacrificing parts of his MS (which is forgivable; the Impulse was meant for such operations after all) to take out an enemy, learning his enemy's moves and fight style (Yes yes, I know it's Rey who did the analysis, but Shinn was the one with the skill to actually carry it out.)

However, if Shinn has a weak quality, it's unstability. As a person with few people to confide in, much less a family, his warrior's spirit and reason for fighting are very important things to him, and that fragile balance can easily be provoked and tested by convincing words, either by someone who he respects deeply (Athrun) or someon he trusts (Rey).

Though, he does also has a fiery will to survive, much moreso than Athrun or Kira, and that's shown the first time he Seeds. In a prolonged match where the pilots' stamina, focus, and wits are all tested, Shinn has a great chance of coming out tops.

Development: We don't know much about Shinn's past, but with all evidence and media we have, let's just assume he was an ordinary coordinator child, and as a pilot was just the same as Athrun or any other newbie Zaft pilot trainee was. Proper military training for about 2 years, however, has moulded him into a full-fledged Zaft Ace, capable of AT LEAST standard teamwork and cooperative maneuvers with his wingmen (Luna, Rey), something that Kira would probably never had learnt nor practiced (in the earlier parts of Seed and Destiny, at least, and that's just 1 person: Athrun).

Still, there's no doubt at all that Shinn has made a steady and large improvement through out Destiny. From a fresh pilot who had a hard time barely holding out against Chaos, Gaia, and Abyss as well as remote weapons such as the Exass' Gunpods, he's actually grown into someone who could take down the most powerful MS at the time, Freedom, utilizing unorthodox strategies and tactics. While called 'dirty moves' by some, knowing about your enemies' strengths and weaknesses is all fair in war, 'honourable' people can complain all they want once they're dead.

The way things are going, Shinn looks to be improving even more with newer, more tougher foes. I'll be looking forward to it, if anything.

Style: Do I even need to say it? Shinn is a true melee specialist and has a good ability to adapt to changing situations, something that will help him greatly when fighting more experianced pilots like Kira or Athrun. Still, he's no pushover at ranged battles either, though he'll definitely resort to it if the situation calls for a battle of beams.

One thing I'd like to note, though, is that Shinn has an actual competitive streak going for him. Like in Phase 42 for example, he was saying 'So if he was using a beam, that would be the end of me, wouldn't it?!' Given his expression and nature, Shinn just isn't the type to complain about a near death experiance. It's just his way of things, I guess...

The reason I place him as 2nd is simply beacuse Kira has alot more experiance going for him. Though, if Shinn has one thing which may cause him to be better than Kira, it's sheer WILL. Like Gil said, while Kira may be the Ultimate Coordinator, he doesn't WANT to be the ultimate pilot, not does he strive for it. Shinn however, is constantly improving himself, and because of that the rankings might change very soon.

3: Athrun Zala

Overview: Behind Kira and Shinn, Athrun is placed 3rd because unlike Kira who has very strong beliefs, or Shinn who has sheer determination and adaptivity going for them, Athrun isn't really anything special by himself. Though, he faces ALOT of personal issues and problems, and as a man who's constantly looking for something greater than himself to fight for, and as someone who wants the benefit of everyone, decisions naturally come down VERY hard on him. This makes him a very weak pilot if his conscience is clouded, but a great one if he truly believes in what he's fighting for. He's too nice of a person, to put it bluntly.

Still, he is a natural leader, and a pilot to be reckoned with. Even in Seed he never truly lost, and his opponent many times were none other than himself. Even against Strike, he wasn't giving it his all, preferring to talk to Kira rather than fight him. Though, the only time he ever went aganst Kira in a rage, he still technically won. And continuing after that, he never truly lost in Justice against the Druggies or anyone else, while Kira had whole limbs and heads taken out by Providence and the Druggies.

This is abit off-topic, but I feel a large part of Athrun's appeal to fans is his character and not the way he fights in an MS.

Development: There isn't really much of a development, actually. We only got to see Aegis in full potential ONCE, and even then it's just once. In Justice, he was shown clearly handling the Druggies and holding them off with great tamowrk on Kira's part. In Destiny, he basically did NEXT TO NOTHING in Saviour, at least compared to Shinn, Kira, maybe even Yzak in Duel. A pity, and a waste of a great MS.

Still, his performence is largely linked to his clouded decisions, and even then, he's a great enough pilot not to lose limbs or weapons, which already proves alot, since Kira and Shinn both lost tons of parts in different occations. With I-Justice Athrun looks set to kick serious ass again, so that's good, if nothing else.

Style: Ironically enough, Athrun tends to play it safe and go in for the fatal strike when the time is ripe. This may explain his high survival rate in Seed and Destiny (not including self-destructs), though that may also be due to the fact that his last 3 MS have all had insane speed and maneuverability, with a good mix of melee and ranged weapons.


.... PHEW!~

Well, there ya guys have it. Now, I need to say I really still believe all 3 of them are very close to each other in terms of skills, and that anything can happen in an actual battle, so this list is just an analysis of individual skills, not how they fare against each other in an ACTUAL BATTLE.

Feedbacks appreciated >_>

[BadBoiu]

[orz]

After thinking about it, my top 3 would be a first going to Kira then Shinn and then Athrun. This is factoring in both GS and GSD.

Kira is first IMO since he has battled with better pilots then Shinn has and against more of them too. In GS alone he beat or at least held his own against the likes of Athrun, Yzak, Nicol and Dearka. Fought the druggies, even if he never beat any of them these druggies are far stronger then the newer GSD ones. Not to mention he also beat Raww.

Oh and that whole Newtype thing going on.

In terms of skill he is by far the best since he pretty much destroys grunts without killing any of them, which is a feat in itself since nobody else does it. Only real knock against Kira is he has had the strongest Gundam from Strike to Strike Freedom. Still I doubt that any other pilot could do what Kira did with those MS.

Shinn is a close second and by close I mean close.

He beat Kira, regardless of however you put it. Kira was distracted and Shinn had a plan. Well at the end of the day Kira lost his MS and Shinn, even if Impluse had lost a whole bunch of parts, was still standing. That alone right there gives him the number 2 spot IMO. He also was more of a then a match for the newer yet weaker druggies.

I also think that in terms of talent Shinn still has room to grow as a pilot. I mean he's been in less fights then Kira or Athrun but can still hold his own. And to me, him being a "emotional" pilot is only a plus, since he is willing to do whatever it takes to come out on top.

Athrun, sigh, what happened to you. IMO the best pilot in GS. He saved Kira a couple of times with Justice and he also "beat" Kira. It also seemed that he was able to do much more then Kira in seed mode. Then GSD comes out, gets a weak Gundam, never went in seed mode yet and well has been pretty lack luster but what he has done in GS still gives him the higher spot then any other pilot.

Thing I dont see is how Rey could even crack the Top 5 in CE, he really hasnt done jack. I mean even Luna has done the same in the same or right now the weaker MS. With GS added in the mix I think even Yzak is a level higher then Rey. At least Yzak killed 2 druggies who had better gundams then he did while Rey just gives orders to Shinn. Only plus I really see about his is how he can find and expliot weaknesses in other pilots, but has to go and order Shinn to do it. Then again hes really hasnt been given a chance to show anything, so I guess hes more of a question mark rather then a solid spot in the top tier of pilots.

[BadBoiu]

I'll give you my take on it Seed Force. My take on trying to measure piloting skill is stupid, because frankly it can't be done. You can't quantify piloting ability, end of story. If I honestly HAD to try though mine would be this.

1. Kira/Shin

Why do I say Kira and Shin? Because they're two sides of the same coin in my opinion. Kira fights for what he believes in, same as Shin. That feature is what gives them something to fight for. They've both demonstrated their fair share of uniqueness in the tactics they use, and we've seen from ep.42 that they're fairly evenly matched. Whether Kira is trying to kill or not is aside the point because he's still trying to win the fight. He tries not to kill but will if he has to, that's not much of a handicap if you ask me. We've seen that Kira and Shin can BOTH be agressive when it comes to fighting, I mean look at what Kira did to poor Saviour because Kira got mad at Athrun. They both can be impulsive, they both can be clever and improvise. I mean these two are more in common than people give them credit for. That's why I think they're just a hardcore pair, and frankly I would rather give up their badass fights against eachother if it means an end to the bickering over them.

3. Athrun (I say 3 because Kira and Shin are taking 2 spots at 1, call this second place if you want it doesn't matter)

Obviously I say Athrun here, until we see him in action again. Since Athrun has been basically failing at life for the last 25-30 episodes I'm cutting him a break because he didn't have his head in gear. Judging from what we have seen of him in SEED though he's an obvious candidate that can even give Kira and Shin a run for their money if provoked enough. We've seen him mostly with a melee touch and he's done fairly well at it. He's been able to hold his own along side Kira against the druggies, and demonstrated the same amount of skill that Kira seemed to have throughout SEED (not including Kira vs. Rau). Athrun could very well go up there with Kira and Shin for me, but since we havn't seen him in Infinite Justice just yet I'm holding my tongue.

4. Rey

The "White Bastard" holds this spot. Being able to keep up with Neo's gunbarrels and all that other insane crap he pulled early in GSD shows that he as well can be thrown up there with Kira/Shin/Athrun. He's a good tactician and can analyze a situation well. Very observant and calm on the battlefield and off. If he's anything like Rau we should see him use the DRAGOON system well (even though Rau couldn't hit the braud side of a barn). On Earth we havn't seen much of him because the ZAKU Phantom can't sustain atmospheric flight, but even as a turret he seemed to be fairing very well. I look forward to his use of the DRAGOONs.

5. Neo/Mu
6. Lunamaria/Cagalli

[bopomofodotonolo]

[coba]

[BadBoiu]

[Zero Wing]

dom33, be objective in your posts, and don't spam; last warning.
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[Athran Rules]

I think it goes like this

1.Atrun, hes the one that destroyed Genesis and was able to keep his own in a Zaku against 3 Gundams, some argue that Kira's stronger since he beat him at Orb, but let me remind you that when they have equal Gundams Athrun won, and in Orb Athrun wasnt trying to kill Kira, just hold him off

2. Shinn, both Kira and Shinn were fighting and Kira had experience and fire power on his side and Shinn won out of talent and brains.

3. Kira, hes experienced and the ultimate coordinator, he finds a way to defeat his enemies without killing them.

~ELABORATE!!!! Seed Force
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[Red21Suns]

[Chibi Athrun Zala]

I look at all the posts and I see that Lunamaria being so disrespected. How is she worst than Cagalli?

Alright Cags has fought some we know this, but she has less fighting time overall, than Lunamaria in both series. Let me point out that also Cags during her time after SEED, probably didn't train much if not at all during her stint being a leader of Orb. If she did it was probably pretty limited, where as Luna has been training and what not has been fighting in the war much more than Cags. I find it hard to believe that a rusty Cags is better than Lunamaria, a red coat. Either they lowered their standards of what a red coat is or Luna must be a pretty good pilot. Remember some red coats actual gave Kira somewhat a good fight. I know Kira wasn't trained but yet he took on Zafts top pilots, so that can be applied to Cags in a way, I can concede that if anyone brings up that point that despite Luna has the training, that doesn't mean she would be better than Cags.

Alright, lets take a look at Cags past proformence. In Seed her first ep of her fighting (ep 21), she damages a ship/tank(?), but was shot down. Ep 23 of SEED, is being yelled at by Mwu during battle due to her crappy flying and was shot, but was ok. Then she stumbles apon the carrier ship that Athrun was in and she shot it down, but it shot her down too. Seems to me she can't dodge in a fighter that should be more manuverable than both ships that she damaged. Alright hey, she is just learning right? We can scratch those off. Now we go to ep 49 where she first pilots the Strike Rougue, all she did was shoot down some grunts and some missiles and was saved by Yzak because she wasn't paying attention and she was in SEED mode. In SEED she never took on anybody besides grunts. Lets go to Destiny, all she did mainly was talk and cry and had Andy tell her to go back if she can't fight. She had Kira to protect on 2 occasions where she didn't fight back (I know there is atleast 3 but the third situation was with her fighting back). Besides Shin, name one pilot she took on head on that was a "ace". I can't because all she has been doing was been own grunts. Shin even said it himself "You have no skill." and he doesn't even know Cags is in there. Yay she took on Shin, but she didn't even do much at all. I rewatched all the fights with Cags, and I am not impressed.

Lunamaria, she is a redcoat, she took on a superior mobile suit. She had a limited long range mobile suit and yet manage to cause draws on Gaia Gundam, despite her Zaku's limitations and you can argue she drew against Gaia as well in ep 4 as Stellar never really got the upperhand against Luna in that ep. Well what about Stellar, how good of a pilot was she? Well lets put her against a normal Shin, in ep4, the limited engagement she had with him, she shot down missiles he shot at her and dodged his attacks. Although very limited, she still didn't get touched by him. Lets look at ep 16 where Stellar and Shin fought one on one. Shin never got a upperhand on Stellar and he had no reason to hold back, although their fight ended prematurely she still gave Shin some fight. Lets go to ep 25, she put a good hit on Shin, infact that hit caused Athrun to intervine, she had to be taken down by both Athrun and Shin. Alright lets take a look at ep 6, the battle one on one with Luna and Stellar, it starts off with them shooting their beam rifles at eachother and then later we see them firing at eachother again, but then in MA mode Stellar gains a speed advantage and hits her, but then Luna dodges a attack and hits Stellar back and then they both damage eachother. They shoot at eachother again and it ends with a draw cause Gaia was called back.

With this I feel like that Luna is easily over Cags in piloting, to me it shouldn't be a doubt that Luna is better. Yes Luna was taken down by grunts, but where she had nowhere else to go, if she had jumped in the ocean, the Minerva would have been damaged more and she would have been useless she basicly had to take the attack, she was limited. Besides that she has only been damaged by Abyss and Gaia I believe. Luna's draws with Stellar should help Luna, cause Stellar was a great pilot, I mean it took Shin and Athrun to take her down in Gaia. I mean yes Shin was not in Seedmode, but it was not like he wasn't trying. I don't know about you, but if you can hold your own against Shin and Athrun, even for a bit, it should say alot and Stellar has last longer against Shin than Cags and Luna drawed Stellar.

Noone here has not come up with convincing evidence on how Cags is better than Luna. Yes Luna messed up alittle when she got Impulse for the first time, so did Cags, she was saved by Yzak when she went on Strike Rougue and Cags was in Seedmode. Rey telling Luna that she will hinder Shin is true, first off Freedom is out there and what Suit took down Freedom, Impulse, so Kira would try to go after it. Cags has to be protected by Kira, and so you can say the same for Luna, she has to be protected by Shin. At the very least, Luna is as good as Cags.
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Briefcase Mod, Anime Music Game is back